Another ex-works car for sale

22 comments

  1. I've just seen that OBL 48F is to be auctioned at Race Retro at the end of this month. Estimate £70-80k

    [URL]http://www.classic-auctions.com/Auctions/26-02-2011-StoneleighPark-1286/1967MorrisMiniCooperSWorksCar-32724.aspx[/URL]#

    Admitedly it is not in my edition of 'The Works Minis' although the blurb implies it is mentioned in later editions.

  2. Irlmi wrote: “Is it genuine ? and is it worth bidding on ? I think the estimate might be a bit optimistic , any opinions on what would be a fair price as it doesn't appear to have a decent 'event' history .
    G”

    I agree. Got thinking about it after I posted. I think it is massively overpriced considering it has no works competition history, even if it was built at Abingdon. I'd rather have Peter Barkers replica at £18k and have enough left over for the Mk1 Escort in the same auction!

  3. Andy2 wrote: “I agree. Got thinking about it after I posted. I think it is massively overpriced considering it has no works competition history, even if it was built at Abingdon. I'd rather have Peter Barkers replica at £18k and have enough left over for the Mk1 Escort in the same auction!”

    You could also have a lot of oversteering fun in that competition Healey 3000 (just below the Ex-Works Cooper S) for a lot less money.
    Pete

  4. HMMMM

    Uncanny resemblance to my own non ex works mini there

    [IMG]http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn96/MCSBMX/rmr/IMG_6234.jpg[/IMG]

    Ill take 30 grand – you get the same looks from everyone plus mines not in the works mini book either 😀

  5. Is it genuine ? and is it worth bidding on ? I think the estimate might be a bit optimistic , any opinions on what would be a fair price as it doesn't appear to have a decent 'event' history .
    G

  6. OK Now I'm confused

    Pic of OBL as a Mk 1

    [IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v453/scoobymedic/OBL48F20-20colour.jpg[/IMG]

    I think with Tom Seal driving, so presumably after it had left works ownership.
    As a Mk 2

    [IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v453/scoobymedic/mini_1.jpg[/IMG]

    And what appears to be a Mk 1 again, this time Silverstone 2005

    [IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v453/scoobymedic/OBL48F.jpg[/IMG]

    Whatever it's incarnation I think it is pretty obvious that it did not leave the factory as a Mk 2 so is it really worth £70-80k.
    (with thanks to this site for the first 2 pics)

  7. Andy2 wrote: “Pic of OBL as a Mk 1

    [IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v453/scoobymedic/OBL48F20-20colour.jpg[/IMG]

    I think with Tom Seal driving, so presumably after it had left works ownership.
    As a Mk 2

    [IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v453/scoobymedic/mini_1.jpg[/IMG]

    And what appears to be a Mk 1 again, this time Silverstone 2005

    [IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v453/scoobymedic/OBL48F.jpg[/IMG]

    Whatever it's incarnation I think it is pretty obvious that it did not leave the factory as a Mk 2 so is it really worth £70-80k.
    (with thanks to this site for the first 2 pics)”

    In the 2nd picture it may look mk2–because of those square tail lamps– but that rear window looks more (smaller) mk1 to me— the edges more in line with the bootlid!!

  8. DVLA check

    The DVLA check for OBL48F shows Date of First Registration…….. 05 10 1967 — as mk2 cars were only just announced in Oct 67 i think its fair to assume this was a very late mk1 when it left the factory.

  9. The notes attached to the auction suggest that OBL 48F was a mark 1 shell converted to look like a mark2 but retaining the Mark 1 rear screen.

    The car was one of three built for the 1967 RAC rally, which was cancelled due to Foot & Mouth, and since the RAC was run in late October/early November they would not have had enough time to build a car based on a true Mark 2.
    The photos show above the car with a mark 1 grille (which is not hard to do), but with the Mark 2 rear lights which was harder to correct in the late 1960's than it is today. However the correct build of the car is surely late mark 1 shell with mark2 cosmetic updates but with narrow back window. It never appeared with a mark 1 grille as a works car, so that picture represents the car car in it's later days. As it is presented at the auction seems to me to represent OBL 48F in its 1967 RAC guise. As to whether or not it's worth the guide price is debateable as it was built as a works car (so it had all that quality and pedigree built into it), but was not driven by a 'name' in anger! It is still a works car though, and probably more original than one that was reshelled a couple of times before it left the Comps dept. Don't forget quite a few Works cars found their way into the club rally scene in the late 60's early 70's and were used and abused as much as any other, but are still reckoned to be worth the 'extra' for that all important Works pedigree.

    Pete

  10. The RAC would have been late November. I'm sure all 4 works cars at the 67 RAC were Mk1s. The link to the photo of 46F in the 45/46F thread on here appears to show a Mk1 but, as all 4 were entered in Gp6, it's not 100% clear. I recall looking at the Hopkirk car and the Fall car but I'm not sure I actually viewed the Ytterbring car as it had a much lower start number and would have been parked some distance away. Who was in 45F and who was in 48F (Fall or Ytterbring) remains unanswered.
    Wasn't the Mk2 only homologated (under 'evolution') 1.1.68? I no longer have my papers and those on line have an illegible date for that page. As all 4 were in Gp6, that would not of course have prevented a Mk2 being used but, with GRX311D clearly a Mk1, it seems inconceivable they would have not brought 4 Mk1s looking the same.
    My own photo the day of the cancelled start:

  11. All the OBL 4*F cars started life as Mk 1's.

    “It never appeared with a mark 1 grille as a works car”

    It did, as it was a recce car for the 1969 Tour de France in Mk 1 form – so it was Mk 1 for quite a while.

  12. Pete wrote: “The notes attached to the auction suggest that OBL 48F was a mark 1 shell converted to look like a mark2 but retaining the Mark 1 rear screen.

    The car was one of three built for the 1967 RAC rally, which was cancelled due to Foot & Mouth, and since the RAC was run in late October/early November they would not have had enough time to build a car based on a true Mark 2.
    The photos show above the car with a mark 1 grille (which is not hard to do), but with the Mark 2 rear lights which was harder to correct in the late 1960's than it is today. However the correct build of the car is surely late mark 1 shell with mark2 cosmetic updates but with narrow back window. It never appeared with a mark 1 grille as a works car, so that picture represents the car car in it's later days. As it is presented at the auction seems to me to represent OBL 48F in its 1967 RAC guise. As to whether or not it's worth the guide price is debateable as it was built as a works car (so it had all that quality and pedigree built into it), but was not driven by a 'name' in anger! It is still a works car though, and probably more original than one that was reshelled a couple of times before it left the Comps dept. Don't forget quite a few Works cars found their way into the club rally scene in the late 60's early 70's and were used and abused as much as any other, but are still reckoned to be worth the 'extra' for that all important Works pedigree.

    Pete”

    Thanks for your comments Pete. I have compared the rear screen to a Mk2 and can see the difference even though it is 'slightly' wider than the boot lid!
    If I had the money I'd still bid on it, but I cannot see it going for more than £55-60K. (Get the egg-on-face ready :o)

  13. Andy2 wrote: “Thanks for your comments Pete. I have compared the rear screen to a Mk2 and can see the difference even though it is 'slightly' wider than the boot lid!
    If I had the money I'd still bid on it, but I cannot see it going for more than £55-60K. (Get the egg-on-face ready :o)”

    Interesting that this weeks Classic Car Weekly has a write up on the forth coming H&H Auction at the race retro, but (for competition cars) does not mention this ex-Works Cooper S. It focuses instead on the ex DTV Pentti Airikkla Chevette HSR restored to RAC livery (guide £75K – £90K), Dennis Welch's Healey 3000 (£200k – £250K), a Lenham fastback Sprite (£10 – £12k) and a Rolls Royce Phantom III which did the Peking to Paris 2010 (£50k – £60k). The Cooper S is simply listed in the table of lots as '1967 Morris Mini Cooper S Rally Car (£70k – £80k)'.

    Incidentally, the rear screen of a Mk1 cars pretty well lines up with the boot lid aperture, and the C pillars will stretch the span of even the biggest hands between the rear side window and rear screen.

    I agree that this ex-works Cooper S would be worth a bid (funds permitting of course), but in this celebratory year of the Cooper, maybe two or more people will fight over it, leaving the ex-owner, who I believe owns the other two OBL cars, a happy bunny. And the price of the other two cars which do have a works competition history will rocket accordingly!

    Another 'incidentally'! OBL 45F and 46F both competed in the first round of the 1969 British Saloon Car Championship at Brands, and were doing 58.3 – 59 sec in the dry. I held a class lap record at 1m.00.00sec on the same circuit – in a 1949 MG TC. I now wonder how fast these cars weren't!

    Pete

  14. I think the 1000cc saloon (free club spec, not necessarily Group 5) lap record for Brands short circuit ( I refuse to call it 'Indy') in 1967 was 59 secs bracket, held by an Imp. Trying to recall what we were doing in standard 998 Hydrolastic Cooper on SP41s at test day (67secs?)

  15. Pete wrote: “Interesting that this weeks Classic Car Weekly has a write up on the forth coming H&H Auction at the race retro, but (for competition cars) does not mention this ex-Works Cooper S. It focuses instead on the ex DTV Pentti Airikkla Chevette HSR restored to RAC livery (guide £75K – £90K), Dennis Welch's Healey 3000 (£200k – £250K), a Lenham fastback Sprite (£10 – £12k) and a Rolls Royce Phantom III which did the Peking to Paris 2010 (£50k – £60k). The Cooper S is simply listed in the table of lots as '1967 Morris Mini Cooper S Rally Car (£70k – £80k)'.

    Incidentally, the rear screen of a Mk1 cars pretty well lines up with the boot lid aperture, and the C pillars will stretch the span of even the biggest hands between the rear side window and rear screen.

    I agree that this ex-works Cooper S would be worth a bid (funds permitting of course), but in this celebratory year of the Cooper, maybe two or more people will fight over it, leaving the ex-owner, who I believe owns the other two OBL cars, a happy bunny. And the price of the other two cars which do have a works competition history will rocket accordingly!

    Another 'incidentally'! OBL 45F and 46F both competed in the first round of the 1969 British Saloon Car Championship at Brands, and were doing 58.3 – 59 sec in the dry. I held a class lap record at 1m.00.00sec on the same circuit – in a 1949 MG TC. I now wonder how fast these cars weren't!

    Pete”

    Yes, i've also seen that, very suprised it is not mentioned.

  16. hanlminima wrote: “The hammer fell at £60,000.”

    Well, at least I was spared the 'egg-on-face' LOL:D
    Anyone know if it sold privately after the auction?

  17. OBL 48F as MK1

    here is picture of OBL 48F in MK1 guise driven by Geoff Grundy on a Motoring News event. I had the privilege of owning this beautiful beast from 1969 – 1971
    after buying if from Geoff. I sold it on to Doug Baird on the Isle of Man.

    Nev Storrs (cooper 3)

  18. cooper wrote: “here is picture of OBL 48F in MK1 guise driven by Geoff Grundy on a Motoring News event. I had the privilege of owning this beautiful beast from 1969 – 1971
    after buying if from Geoff. I sold it on to Doug Baird on the Isle of Man.

    Nev Storrs (cooper 3)”

    Very nice, you lucky guy. Do you regret selling it?
    Thanks for the picture.:)

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