Mini Cooper Register
Hi all, i have a 1275 metro engine A+ and am intending on getting it bored to 1293 along with 1.5 roller rockers (TITAN) as i already run these now, a re-worked cylinderhead along with a cam as used in works rally minis during the 60's. I am also going to be using a twin carb arrangement possibly twin HS2's. Would an original 649 type cam be a wise choice? I will probably run an Aldon or 1-2-3 electronic ignition aswell. As i want the engine to be relatively the same power wise to the works cars.
Many thanks, Evan.
I would be very interested in getting a genuine 649 not like the kent cams or similar reproductions with different performance figures etc. How much are we talking for one of these cams to suit my A+ 1275? Would it perform well in a 1293 with the setup i posted earlier?
A genuine 649 will not fit into an A+ without you changing the oil pump to a pin drive one.
Rite, well i have an old 998 from my 77 mini which is the engine without strengthening ribs, different domed type core plugs, longer alternator bracket and 2 bolt clamp type distributor clamp. Would the oil pump drive be interchangeable. How much would a genuine 649 cam cost then?
Many thanks, Evan.
If you want to buy a genuine 649 I have one for sale, not cheap however 😉
Pointless using a 649 with twin HS2s. Use HS4s at least. Excellent rally cam. Fitting only involves drilling and tapping an extra hole, so no harder than fitting a spider drive to an S block.
There was a spider drive equivalent made for the 649.
Yea i was thinking about twin hs4's. I have come across some names for the old BMC 649 camshafts like AEA 648 etc. I know someone who has one which is stamped saying AEG 649, is this the original type 649 camshaft as used in works cars as i can't find much information regarding it?
IIRC, the 649 was a 648 fitted and supplied with the oil pump drive pin.
As for works usage, Hopkirk's Gp2 car on the 67 Monte was fitted with a 648. So probably quite common.
Thanks for the info. So would it be worth getting an AEG 649 opposed to an AEA 649, i assume they are the same regarding duration, lift etc its just the 3rd letter that is different for some reason?
Yes this setup is for my road car and it will be my daily driver. Many people say the cam is not too bad in traffic and some say it is, but it doesn't bother me it being lumpy as i want it to sound as authentic as possible to the works minis.
In all honesty, a 649 isn't great on a true roadcar mate, by the time you've come up on the cam your mate with a 276 fitted is so far ahead of you you'll need the Mulsanne straight to catch him.
Is this going to be for a roadcar?
I agree with Mister D, i had a 649 in my old Cooper S. Theres nothing below 4,000 revs, over that and it just wants to go and go. However the first time you slow down for a lorry etc you'll be down the box. Keep the 649 for the track where your foot is nailed to the floor all the time.
yep i agree – 649 in a serious rally car, if you want originality and good torque why not go for the old 997 cooper cam, just had my engine built
1310 block / dished pistons
997 cooper cam
keith dodd 1.5 rockers
nice head 10.1 cr
maniflow steel inlet
helical cr S box with straight cut drops
3.1 twin pin diff
maniflow freeflow cooper s exhaust manifold
maniflow works exhaust system
drove it briefly but it just pulls and pulls and pulls, idles nice, runs well, it aint lumpy, bags and bags of torque, its my trial engine for long distane rallies, gonna run this for a while, note any good or bad points and fix them for the next engine….
Not every works car was balls out power, just build something you will enjoy driving
Thanks for the help everyone will probably go for something a bit more tame then, is the 997 cam the 731 or is that another one i'm thinking of?
1977 loud min wrote: “Thanks for the help everyone will probably go for something a bit more tame then, is the 997 cam the 731 or is that another one i'm thinking of?”
731 was sold by ST as a 'rally' cam (for all A series). Everyone I know who used it in period didn't like it. I co-drove a 998 with a 731 on one Scottish and it just didn't seem 'right' for the job. As far as I know it wasn't used by the works team in any model, Cooper or S.
Was the nearest equivalent used by the works team the 544? Makinen was said to have had a 544 on the 66 RAC when all the other works cars used the standard 510 1275S cam (presumably in fear of snow similar to 65)
The 997 Cooper cam was the 88G229, also available spider drive as C-AEA567. Gives an extra 12 degrees inlet duration over the 510; 88G229 is 252/252, 510 240/252. The 731 adds an extra 16 degrees on both inlet and exhaust with a whole 2 thou extra lift. The 544 adds an extra 36 degrees duration over the 88G229 but also adds an extra 56 thou of lift.
So, in order: 510 – 240/252 in/ex, 0.250 inch lift
88G229 – 252/252, 0.250
731 – 268/268, 0.252
544 – 288/288, 0.306
As usual everything has more than one part number; 88G229 also as 2A948, 12A122, and AEA567, 510 as AFG542, 731 as C-AEA800, and 544 as C-AEG643. The 88G229 and first 2 alternatives are pin drive, the 567 spider drive; in other cases pin first, alternative star.
More recently Rover added another cam between the 88G229 and the 731, the MG Metro cam sticks with 0.250 lift and uses 252/268 inlet/exhaust duration.
And the MG Metro cam is absolutely blinding too, nice tickover, good power all the way through, just a nats pube better than the 997 cam in my opinion, but in all honesty, you'll struggle to find a better cam for road use than a 266, good power, no penalty.
You must be logged in to post a comment.
Rioting in Mozambique – Mini victim
MiniWorld Action Day Castle Combe – Sep 25th