8 port Lucas Fuel Injection

38 comments

  1. Yes I can find many 8 port Injection gp5 cars likr British Vita and Equipe Arden.

    I know of one Danish driver Mr Poul H Pedersen who used a weslake 8 port with Tecalemit Jackson Injection.

    [URL]http://touringcarracing.net/Races/1971%20Djursland.html[/URL]

    But it could be nice with some more evidence.

    The cylinder head is homologated, but the injection isn't.

    The gp 2 regulation says carburation is free though.

    Thomas

  2. Hi

    Was the Weslake 8 port and Lucas Fuel Injection used in Gr 2 racing pre.

    1972 ?.:confused:

    I know the Cylinder head is Homologated, but what about the Fuel Injection ?.

    Thomas

  3. This is from a Danish Magazine June 1971

    Poul H Pedersen 1293 Weslake 8 port T.J Injection

    and my own ex. Erik Høyer 1275Gt Weslake on 45mm webers

  4. E-typ wrote: ”
    The gp 2 regulation says carburation is free though.
    Thomas”

    Originally, with the original manifold and the number of carburettors having to be the same (and the 'no intermediary device' clause that was the basis of the 68 Monte controversy with the works Ss, although that clause is clarified for 1969, confirming one off carburettors are allowed).
    That is then also qualified by something like 'but direct injection is only permitted if provided for on the original production vehicle'.

    As already posted by others, there seems to be no new manifolds associated with the 1970 homologation of the 8 port head into Gp2.

    I can't see it in the limited extracts from historic Appendix J on the FIA site but I'm sure carbs and inlet manifold were totally free in Gp2 from 1975.

    Ford ran Tecalemit injection on standard twin carb manifold in Mk2 Lotus Cortina rally cars (TC not the race car FVA) in 1967, first in Gp5 but later in Gp2.

    I'm confused too….

  5. If they had to sell 1000 injection kits to get it in group2 , then no it never happened .

    If there was ever more than 50 lucas injection engine kits made i,d be very surprised .

    The metering units , pumps , injectors etc do turn up . Its all the other parts that are hard to find and these are the bits made by weslake / BMC / downton.

  6. 251 EN wrote: “If they had to sell 1000 injection kits to get it in group2 , then no it never happened .

    If there was ever more than 50 lucas injection engine kits made i,d be very surprised .

    The metering units , pumps , injectors etc do turn up . Its all the other parts that are hard to find and these are the bits made by weslake / BMC / downton.”

    100 at the time for such items – and probably very few from any manufacturer ever reached the official quantity (alloy panels for 1275 S was one that probably did).

  7. E-typ wrote: ”

    My own 'TEAM AUSTIN MINI' Gr 2 Austin 1275GT ex Erik Høyer, was the car

    responsible for the homologatin of the 'S' crank for the 1275GT.”

    I have heard this story before but in a slightly different form and I am interested as to the voracity of it. What date did this ordering take place? When was your 1275GT competing (first event), I would like to know this for historical purposes, if you can tell me.

    My own car was pictured on the original 5405 Homologation form in a cropped publicity shot to show the Gp2 arch C-AJJ 4019 and Minilite wheel.

    The first event that a 1275GT was entered as a rally car in Britain in Gp2 as far as I know was the 1971 RAC rally, although shown on the entry as a Cooper S it was a 1275GT but was running 'S' Block,head and crank, it was also the first seeded Mini that year at car 42 and still owned by Special Tuning, Abingdon but loaned to Phil Cooper.

    The Crank AEG 479, rods AEG 176 and Block 38G 466 and Neg camber bottom arms C-AJJ 3364 were accepted as GP2 mods for the 1275GT by the F.I.A at 1st April 1971 (Fools Day):D

    As with all these things I speak only what I believe to be true, it does not make it true.

  8. A little bit of digging through Jens old posts reveals that Erik Hoyers 1275GT was racing in the 1971 season, the 'S' bits were not Homologated until April of 71, so did it run under Cooper 'S' paperwork before then or was it running Gp2 spec before the F.I.A paperwork had gone through:confused:

  9. A new std 1275GT was delivered to Erik Høyer on the 17 of february 1971.

    First race was at Jyllandsringen 20/5, and in the magazine 'Bilen og BÃ¥den' from 28/5 it says: The engine is a venture as it's only the 'ordinary' 1300 BLMC engine, lacking the Cooper steel crank and conrods.
    But it has 136bhp at 7500rpm, and is revved to 8400rpm.

    In the same magazine from 30/9 there is an article about the Danish
    Team Austin Mini team, having great influence on international Mini racing. A lot of former Cooper drivers is know to swap to 1275GT, because the team have got the Cooper S engine and dry suspension homologated. furter more doors and boot/bonnet in alloy is to become elligible from 1972, so the weight advantage for the Cooper is gone, and the 1275Gt have better room for carbs and manifolds.

    Thomas

  10. For sure some of the cars where not made in the required numbers.

    My own 'TEAM AUSTIN MINI' Gr 2 Austin 1275GT ex Erik Høyer, was the car

    responsible for the homologatin of the 'S' crank for the 1275GT.

    The Danish 'Works' team Manager Mr. Sigurd Søgaard Andersen

    simply placed an order at BMC for the required number of cars.

    Got the homologation through, and then canceled the order for the cars.

    But the Lucas injection is for sure not homologated.

    But if we can prove that a Gp. 2 car was entered in a FIA race with injection, it is allowed today.

  11. Thanks Thomas, the situation is a bit clearer now. It would seem that the 'S' crank, block and rods were homologated before Eriks GT went racing, it is possible that some clandestine arrangement between Abingdon and the Danish team assisted this BUT it would be Abingdon who homologated this not the Danish team.
    My own car was in full Gp2 spec at Abingdon without the 'S' crank and block by December of 1969.
    The dry suspension was standard across the entire Mini range with the exception of the Mk3 'S' by 1971 and was again a decision of BL and not a Danish racing team I suspect.
    This is not meant to be disrespectful just trying to get history in order.:)
    Ade

  12. Of course it was the factory that did the homologation, but it was on behalf of Sigurd Søgaard Andersen from DFA (De forenede Automobilfabrikker) importers of Austin

    You are not right about the hydro suspension.

    All early 1275GT had hydro, up until some time in 1971.

    Mine had too, in an add. for Castrol oil you can se the new car striped.
    And the hydro hoses is clearly seen.

    It still has the genuine hydro front subframe, but converted to dry.

  13. E-typ wrote: ”

    You are not right about the hydro suspension.

    All early 1275GT had hydro, up until some time in 1971.

    I think there is a misunderstanding Thomas, I am aware the early GT's were Hydro, I own the oldest GT in the World and like yours it was Hydro in Sept 69 and then converted to dry using the wet frames later in life. My point was that Leyland had opted for all cars to run dry by 1971 because of production rationale NOT input from race teams.

  14. Regarding Tour de France

    I have just gone through Peter Brownings Works Minis.

    Apperently it was not OBL 45F, (it was running on split webers), but the John Handley/Poul Easter URX 560G that was Fuel Injected.

    They did Nurburgring, Spa, rheims, Rouen, Le Mans, Magny Cours, Auvergne, Albi and Nogaro + some 10 hill climbs.

    Was this classified as a rally or race?

    And again GP 2 ?

  15. Bill Price's book refers to (and has a photo so-captioned) the Hopkirk car as fuel injected. There is another photo of Hopkirk standing by OBL45F and the other drivers alongside the other two cars (Culcheth in the GP1 car). The text refers to two Gp2 cars and both are fitted with bumpers. However the text also refers to the Handley car being fitted with 'a' Weber (not twin ie. splits), which obviously would make it Gp5 or 6.
    The Tour de France Auto was an Internatioinal Rally (there were timed road sections, however slack the timing). The fact that the Handley and Hopkirk cars have bumpers fitted might be something to do with then current French road regulations or specific event regulations (although Gp6 cars ran on French roads previously with no bumpers eg. Coupe des Alpes 67).
    Neither book can be considered the 'bible' (see the Gulf thread about Price's book ) and I have recently been struggling with a reference in Brownings book refering to Vic Elford in a Lotus Cortina on the 66 Scottish (he almost certainly meant Roger Clark).
    Seems all we have established for sure is that TdeF was not a race.

  16. One other point from the Price book: all the 69 TdeF photos show all three cars with the chrome trim around the door windows. This is a reasonable clue that the two 'Gp 2' cars were probably not Gp 6 but it doesn't rule out them being Gp 5.
    Photos of the BSCC race cars in the GP 5 era show the chrome door trim – Gp 5 was quite restricted in respect of bodywork and very close to Gp 2 in that respect. Allowing the removal of bumpers on Gp 5 race cars did not necessarily mean they could be removed on Gp 5 rally cars then – although I think that changed later. Obviously they could be removed in Gp 6. I'm not sure whether the 69 TdeF had separate Gp 5 and 6 categories. If it didn't, and Gps 5 and 6 were combined in one category, as for most rallies, it's probably safe to assume they were indeed Gp2 cars.

  17. Was a rally car a GP. 2 car?

    According to this:

    Look at the Weslake MK4 version

    [URL]http://mk1-performance-conversions.co.uk/60s_tuning_equipment.htm[/URL]

    The OBL 45F Paddy Hopkirk/A. Nash Tour de France car.

    [URL]http://www.theitalianjob.com/worksminis_resultstable.htm[/URL]

    Is this a proof I can use?

    Thomas

  18. If we look at the homologation 5028
    the 8 port head is not legal before 1-1-1970.
    This takes out the Tour de France cars as being gp. 2 cars.

    [URL]http://www.hms.dk/downloads/homologering/5028-MiniCooper.S.mk2.pdf[/URL]

    Strangly no manifolds inlet or exhaust is homologated.
    So no Works cars ever competed in 8 port gp. 2 trim.
    Was this homologation only done to satisfy the Danish Team Austin Mini Team.?

    At that time (1970), the Danish Austin Mini Cooper star driver Erik Høyer (6 times Danish champion in Mini) competed in a mk1 gp. 2 car, and a MK2
    gp. 1 car.

    With referance to an article written in december 1970 called 'A race drivers diary' about Erik Høyers 1970 season, it is told, that he started the season with split webers. Then he changed to IDA weber with manifold made by Danish tunning expert Aage Olesen. Finaly he went for the weslake 8 port, with homemade inlet manifold for downdraught webers.

  19. The 1969 Tour de France Mini's ran in a combined Group 2/5.

    OBL 45F was the fuel injected Mini – The Works Mini's is wrong.

    URX 560G ran on split Webers not a single.

  20. Mk 3 S Meiste wrote: “The 1969 Tour de France Mini's ran in a combined Group 2/5.

    OBL 45F was the fuel injected Mini – The Works Mini's is wrong.

    URX 560G ran on split Webers not a single.”

    560G recieving some attention, just about make out the splits……

    [IMG]http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e347/porgy6/690918TdFHopkirk2hgi.jpg[/IMG]

  21. Mk 3 S Meiste wrote: ”

    OBL 45F was the fuel injected Mini – The Works Mini's is wrong ”

    Thanks, as previously stated, the 'The Bible' is not the be all and end all, just a useful starting point.:)

  22. Some links that may help

    [url]http://mk1-performance-conversions.co.uk/arden_eng.htm[/url]

    [url]http://www.atfreeforum.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=1741&highlight=alec+poole&mforum=mk1mark[/url]

    (the link above is on the old MK1 forum, so you will need to go to the current version if you need more info)

  23. The reason I am asking these questions, is that a friend of mine who is racing a Pre 1972 gp. 2 Austin Cooper S, would like to have me to build an 8 port Injection engine, and participate in racing with it. So this will not be another 'trailer queen', but raced hard. Would love to hear the sound of it.
    But we would like to have some evidence that it was used in period in
    gp. 2.

    In the 1970 ETCC Silverstone race Equip Arden participated with a 1293cc MK2 Cooper S, was this car 8 port injection? Any pic.?

    [URL]http://touringcarracing.net/Pages/1970%20ETCC.html[/URL]

    Again at 24h Spa

    The BLMC teams John Handley/Alec Poole and John Rhodes/Geoff Mabbs

    Raced.

    Any pic. of these?

    [URL]http://touringcarracing.net/Races/1970%20Spa.html[/URL]

    Thomas

  24. Mk 3 S Meiste wrote: “If memory serves, one of the 1970 Spa cars was LBL 606D.”

    According to our friends at the Mini Club Zagreb Forum, your memory is good as they list LBL 606D as being used on the 67 Monte and 68 TAP that are recorded in the 'Bibles' in addition they have the 69 Monte, driven by David Froswick (not heard of him before, unless it should be David Friswell) then the 1970 Spa 24 with Handley and Poole.

    As with most of these cars it is unlikely that the car called LBL 606D that did the 67 Monte is the same car that ran at Spa in 1970, the Spa race took place a month before the team found out en-route to the 86hr marathon at the Nurburgring that the Comps was to close at the end of October.

    Had LBL 606D been sold off prior to the 69 Monte and its identity borrowed for the carnet to Belgium or was the whole event overlooked because of the turmoil that followed and neither Spa cars finishing in their Gp2 class 2 ???

    My usual caveats apply, I may be completely wrong:p

  25. The 1969 Monte entry for LBL 606D was crewed by Gordon Wilkins and Michael Frostick. Frostick was a well known motoring writer of the time.

  26. Mk 3 S Meiste wrote: “I think it was still factory owned at the time. There was a picture of it on the event on the cover of an early MCR Magazine.”

    It may be worth a trawl through some old 1969 'High Roads', if it was a motoring writer in a loaned car there is usually a story published somewhere, will see what I can find on my travels.

  27. Here's the reply I got from Arden's Norman Seeney to the question of the use of 8 port and fuel injection on their 1970 Gp2 racer :

    'The 1970 Equipe Arden 1275 Cooper S as driven by Gordon (Spice) used the Arden Aluminium 8 Port cyl head with Tecalimit fuel injection. From memory the engine gave 140 BHP + and we went back to 10 inch dia. wheels with much wider section on the front, with special tyres from Dunlop.

    It was a very quick car. The biggest headache we had was from Broadspeed with the 1300 Ford Escorts. They were able to get the power down much better than us'.

    [IMG]http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e347/porgy6/KGrHqZioE4rqM6QsGBOW5GgjSI60_12.jpg[/IMG]

    Pete

  28. Meaning where, since modern International historic racing does not specifically reflect Appendix J Group2 (in any of its multiple and considerable Gp2 regulation variations during its validity, either post or pre 1966 Appendix J change).

Leave a comment